Being in a consensual relationship does not mean one consents to everything the other demands. Particularly in an unequal power dynamic. Related: NDAs are another form of intimate partner violence.
"Just one thing - Let’s take it as a given that Gaiman, by his own admission, is hampered by the empathy vacuum of autism." No, this is the myth about autism that won't die. Current research actually shows autistics have an overabundance of empathy, and all autistics I know (including myself and my son) show this to be true. Do not attribute any of this horrific abuse to autism - this is incredibly damaging to autistics and woefully misinformed.
Autism DOES NOT equal empathy vacuum. Maybe that was an issue in your relationship, but it definitely isn’t the norm. Oftentimes autistic people have EXTREME empathy, or the regular amount. I know this to be true. Not the point of the piece, I get that.
Not sure if I can post links here, but I do recommend it as a companion piece. I learned so much about laws around consent and my own Gen. X propaganda around rape. Like, I was taught rape is violent and involves some kind of penetration. WRONG.
Thank you for writing about this.
What I’m curious about, and you touched on it too: that sixth sense about someone’s energy or vibe. When our intuition pings and we know something’s OFF.
In the podcast, the victims talk about how “something wasn’t right”. “I didn’t feel ok”. They keep wondering why they showed up to be alone with him when everything in their soul said to keep away.
Neil was an expert at gentle shock and awe to the point that the victims felt like HE was a victim of some kind.
I’m fascinated by this because I’ve experienced this too. Our voice inside our heads say get out of there and we override it.
I am so rattled by this story. It has haunted me all week.
I need to listen to that podcast, too. Have not had the stomach for it yet, but I will. As for the voice inside your head (and mine), the most important work of my post-divorce adulthood has been to learn to tune into that voice. Thank you for your words.
I haven’t followed the Gaiman story at all and have never read any of his works, but my kids have… but that sixth sense intuition about people generally, and men specifically — in terms of dating —has guided me pretty well… and when it hasn’t, it’s because I did not listen to that voice and let myself be sweet talked or cajoled or just let my own desires trump (pun intended) my better judgment. Empowerment is a tricky thing that involves so much baggage, education, role models and finances to name a few…
Thanks for this. Well-argued and insightful, as always.
I do wonder, though, if you aren't cutting some corners on this discussion of consent. Clearly, "Being in a consensual relationship does not mean one consents to everything the other demands." No question. But if an adult of sound mind not only consents, but responds enthusiastically to a situation while it's happening, what is this, if not consent? Even if she changes her mind years later, in light of therapy or the insight that comes with experience? And if such consent is not "consent," then what does it mean to be a "consenting adult?" Should such a person be taken seriously when requesting a loan or signing a book contract?
Kat Rosenfeld makes this case very well in her recent essay, "On what women want."
"The thing is, if women can’t be trusted to assert their desires or boundaries because they'll invariably lie about what they want in order to please other people, it's not just sex they can't reasonably consent to. It's medical treatments. Car loans. Nuclear non-proliferation agreements. Our entire social contract operates on the premise that adults are strong enough to choose their choices, no matter the ambient pressure from horny men or sleazy used car salesmen or power-hungry ayatollahs."
Sure, but in this case, with nearly every woman, they each expressed discomfort at some point. Also, we have to look at the dynamic of the relationship: if someone is counting on a man who's abusing them for their livelihood, rent, or status, like many of these women were, that person, a priori, is in a position that lacks power. These were his babysitters and really young fans, after all. He seems to deliberately seek out much younger women who are either emotionally or financially vulnerable. If you listen to the podcast, it really maps this out in excellent detail. https://www.tortoisemedia.com/listen/master-the-allegations-against-neil-gaiman Also also? I consider myself an extremely strong woman. Yet I was abused. Abuse doesn't happen all at once. It's tiny drip drip drips of saying yes to this one thing, only once, and then that one thing suddenly becomes the only thing, and you don't like it, but they are threatening to end the relationship over it. You don't want to end a relationship over something seemingly minor, especially if kids are involved, and suddenly you find yourself "consenting" to things you find abhorrent for the sake of family unity. I could go on and on here, but I'll just say it seems that these women DID say, "I don't like this," but felt forced into continuing it for self-preservation or because in one case he'd promised one woman, newly divorced with three kids, that she could have five acres of his land in exchange for being his caretaker. And the minute she stopped wanting to have sex with him, he asked her to leave. Anyway...
Exactly right. Thank you.
"Just one thing - Let’s take it as a given that Gaiman, by his own admission, is hampered by the empathy vacuum of autism." No, this is the myth about autism that won't die. Current research actually shows autistics have an overabundance of empathy, and all autistics I know (including myself and my son) show this to be true. Do not attribute any of this horrific abuse to autism - this is incredibly damaging to autistics and woefully misinformed.
Point taken. I'm sorry. And I edited the piece accordingly. Thank you for pointing this out.
Thank, your response and edit are greatly appreciated.
Autism DOES NOT equal empathy vacuum. Maybe that was an issue in your relationship, but it definitely isn’t the norm. Oftentimes autistic people have EXTREME empathy, or the regular amount. I know this to be true. Not the point of the piece, I get that.
Point taken. I'm sorry. And I edited the piece accordingly. Thank you for pointing this out.
My autistic daughter is extremely empathetic. Please don't equate abuse with autism.
Point taken. Apology given: I'm sorry, you're right. And the piece was edited to reflect your thoughts. Thank you.
I don’t doubt that. But I feel to many men feel that saying they are on the spectrum is an excuse to do whatever they want.
Understood. Thank you for pointing that out.
Shout it from the mountain tops! This article is TRUTH. Thank you, Deborah!
Sadly, true. Well crafted piece published on this day making it even more powerful. Well done and thank you
Thank you.
I knew the Gaiman article was dropping last week so hurried up and listened to the podcasts that started it all ➡️ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-slow-newscast/id1487320403?i=1000660908731
Not sure if I can post links here, but I do recommend it as a companion piece. I learned so much about laws around consent and my own Gen. X propaganda around rape. Like, I was taught rape is violent and involves some kind of penetration. WRONG.
Thank you for writing about this.
What I’m curious about, and you touched on it too: that sixth sense about someone’s energy or vibe. When our intuition pings and we know something’s OFF.
In the podcast, the victims talk about how “something wasn’t right”. “I didn’t feel ok”. They keep wondering why they showed up to be alone with him when everything in their soul said to keep away.
Neil was an expert at gentle shock and awe to the point that the victims felt like HE was a victim of some kind.
I’m fascinated by this because I’ve experienced this too. Our voice inside our heads say get out of there and we override it.
I am so rattled by this story. It has haunted me all week.
I need to listen to that podcast, too. Have not had the stomach for it yet, but I will. As for the voice inside your head (and mine), the most important work of my post-divorce adulthood has been to learn to tune into that voice. Thank you for your words.
I haven’t followed the Gaiman story at all and have never read any of his works, but my kids have… but that sixth sense intuition about people generally, and men specifically — in terms of dating —has guided me pretty well… and when it hasn’t, it’s because I did not listen to that voice and let myself be sweet talked or cajoled or just let my own desires trump (pun intended) my better judgment. Empowerment is a tricky thing that involves so much baggage, education, role models and finances to name a few…
Finally listened to it. So good. Thanks for suggesting. xx
Thanks for this. Well-argued and insightful, as always.
I do wonder, though, if you aren't cutting some corners on this discussion of consent. Clearly, "Being in a consensual relationship does not mean one consents to everything the other demands." No question. But if an adult of sound mind not only consents, but responds enthusiastically to a situation while it's happening, what is this, if not consent? Even if she changes her mind years later, in light of therapy or the insight that comes with experience? And if such consent is not "consent," then what does it mean to be a "consenting adult?" Should such a person be taken seriously when requesting a loan or signing a book contract?
Kat Rosenfeld makes this case very well in her recent essay, "On what women want."
"The thing is, if women can’t be trusted to assert their desires or boundaries because they'll invariably lie about what they want in order to please other people, it's not just sex they can't reasonably consent to. It's medical treatments. Car loans. Nuclear non-proliferation agreements. Our entire social contract operates on the premise that adults are strong enough to choose their choices, no matter the ambient pressure from horny men or sleazy used car salesmen or power-hungry ayatollahs."
https://substack.com/home/post/p-154956534?selection=ecee62f4-c620-4733-b55d-87dd032da2e5
Sure, but in this case, with nearly every woman, they each expressed discomfort at some point. Also, we have to look at the dynamic of the relationship: if someone is counting on a man who's abusing them for their livelihood, rent, or status, like many of these women were, that person, a priori, is in a position that lacks power. These were his babysitters and really young fans, after all. He seems to deliberately seek out much younger women who are either emotionally or financially vulnerable. If you listen to the podcast, it really maps this out in excellent detail. https://www.tortoisemedia.com/listen/master-the-allegations-against-neil-gaiman Also also? I consider myself an extremely strong woman. Yet I was abused. Abuse doesn't happen all at once. It's tiny drip drip drips of saying yes to this one thing, only once, and then that one thing suddenly becomes the only thing, and you don't like it, but they are threatening to end the relationship over it. You don't want to end a relationship over something seemingly minor, especially if kids are involved, and suddenly you find yourself "consenting" to things you find abhorrent for the sake of family unity. I could go on and on here, but I'll just say it seems that these women DID say, "I don't like this," but felt forced into continuing it for self-preservation or because in one case he'd promised one woman, newly divorced with three kids, that she could have five acres of his land in exchange for being his caretaker. And the minute she stopped wanting to have sex with him, he asked her to leave. Anyway...